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Chevy Volt VS Nissan LEAF
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Written on: 27 August 2009 [03:40]
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iamian
 
registered since: 23.02.2009
Posts: 110
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brighterplanet wrote: EVs and plug-in hybrids are great... but the electricity grid's still dirty enough that in many states a gasoline-only Prius is actually greener. http://blog.brighterplanet.com/2009/08/25/think-the-volt-is-greener-than-the-prius-think-again/ Old misunderstanding. 2005 electric grid numbers are a bit outdated... back then Kansas was: 1,961 Lbs of CO2 per MWh produced at $0.0655 / Kwh http://www.eia.doe.gov/cneaf/electricity/st_profiles/kansas.html 2007 Kansas is: 1,712 Lbs of CO2 per KWH Produced at $0.0684 / Kwh Even Kansas has cleaned up their electrical grid about ~12.6% less CO2 in just 2 years... see the trend... the grid is easier and cheaper to clean up than millions of cars are... the grid can go to all Renewable energy like solar. In 2005: A 4 mile per kwh EV will produce at worst ~49 Lbs over 100 Miles ~$1.63. A 6 mile per kwh EV will produce at worst ~32 Lbs over 100 Miles ~$1.09. A 8 mile per kwh EV will produce at worst ~24 Lbs over 100 Miles ~$0.82. In 2007: A 4 mile per kwh EV will produce at worst ~43 Lbs over 100 Miles, ~$1.71. A 6 mile per kwh EV will produce at worst ~28 Lbs over 100 Miles, ~$1.14. A 8 mile per kwh EV will produce at worst ~21 Lbs over 100 Miles, ~$0.84. The Prius never gets better over time... if anything as the car ages ... its emissions gets worse. If a 50 MPG Prius gets 40 Lbs over 100 Miles. A 45 MPG Prius gets ~44 Lbs over 100 Miles. A 40 MPG Prius gets ~50 Lbs over 100 Miles. A 50 MPG Prius would need Gasoline to be under ~$0.84 per gallon just to break even with the 2007 Volt getting 4 miles per kwh. A 50 MPG PRius would need Gasoline to be under ~$0.42 per gallon just to break even with the 2007 8 mile per kWh EV. I don't think we will see under $1 gasoline again any time soon... and under $0.50 a gallon , only in your dreams. Only the top cleanest Gasoline cars you can get used in the dirtiest electrical power in the country used in one of the lowest efficiency EVs even gets close to making this argument... you have to stack the deck completely against the EV for it to work... and over time the grid just keeps getting cleaner. Or just put solar power on your roof to power the EV , and then the grid doesn't matter at all. RE & Efficiency enthusiast
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Written on: 27 August 2009 [09:26]
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Yardonn
 
registered since: 22.08.2007
Posts: 160
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And it's so easy to focus just on one part of the pollution. Beside CO2 (which ist at least not directly toxic) a fuel burner emmits much more things, that are toxic or harmful to the enviroment. Even though some powerplants (old and or fossil burning...) may do the same, you have much more means to do something about that on the powerplants than in a car. Even with all the filters and catalysators today fuel burners are not clean. And there is no known technologie to change that. On the other side (like iamian so goog proved for canada) the electric grid is becoming cleaner as regenerative energies are (slowly but steadyly) rising. If You really care for the enviroment you not only invest into a (P)(H)EV but also into regenerative powerproduction. And of course, in the car concept there a two problems. The fuel burning and the concept itself. Using more than a tonne of metal just to transport one person, will never be enviromentaly friendly. A state of the art E-Mobile does not have to use more than 10 kWh per 100 km (235 mpg! or to be fair 110 mpg considering 33% efficiency of the fuel burning...). Such an thing (perhabs the aptera..) would not be questiend in regard of beeing cleaner than any fuel burner. Yes, i admit, neather the Volt nor the Leaf is a good vehicle in my considerations. To heavy and to much energie needed. But these vehicles are necesary, because so many people wand to drive "real cars". To many people are (yet) not willing to make the sacrefices that are necesary to drive a efficient mobile. For me (going with 50 kg of vehicle weight...) 99.9 % of the Cars are overweigth dinosaurs, regardles of the motor. Alleweder 4
http://www.akkurad.com allmost full weather protection for one person at 0 - 1.5 kWh / 100 km CityEl as secondary E-Car |
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Written on: 05 April 2010 [22:08]
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childress
Administrator
registered since: 14.08.2007
Posts: 140
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[quote="iamian"] Or just put solar power on your roof to power the EV , and then the grid doesn't matter at all. Ever seen a solar race car? Essentially a 4x8 sheet of solar cells with a bubble in the middle. As of yet, there is not a practical-use EV powered strictly by solar cells on the vehicle itself (solartaxi is the closest, and that's on the trailer). For maximum efficiency (where solar cells can gain maximum exposure by setting to the proper angle of incidence to the sun, and even perhaps motorized tracking like a sunflower), solar cells belong on buildings, not vehicles. ...quote command broken... Commute suck? Twike it; You'll like it!
http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike |
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Written on: 05 April 2010 [23:43]
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iamian
registered since: 23.02.2009
Posts: 110
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Ever seen a solar race car? Essentially a 4x8 sheet of solar cells with a bubble in the middle. As of yet, there is not a practical-use EV powered strictly by solar cells on the vehicle itself (solartaxi is the closest, and that's on the trailer). For maximum efficiency (where solar cells can gain maximum exposure by setting to the proper angle of incidence to the sun, and even perhaps motorized tracking like a sunflower), solar cells belong on buildings, not vehicles. ...quote command broken... I was referring to home roof actually not vehicle roof... but I will agree for the resources including money ... the stationary solar application does give more for the resources invested. Although ... that having been said ... with at least one company already producing PV at under $1 per watt... it might not be that far off... Especially for the PV types of paints and inks... your car gets painted anyway ... I look forward eventually to a PV coating being more cost effective ... although it will take a while to get there... I know I would be interested in a PV paint option ... especially if it were not more than 2 or 3 times the cost of a normal paint job... even 1 mile of solar energy a day is still 365 miles a year ... and although allot of PV systems are warrantied for 20 years ... in just 10 years that is 3,650 solar miles from the car itself. I like the idea ... but it need work. RE & Efficiency enthusiast
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Written on: 05 April 2010 [23:46]
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childress
Administrator
registered since: 14.08.2007
Posts: 140
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Ahh, indeed - I misread/wasn't clear. Commute suck? Twike it; You'll like it!
http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike |
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