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Th!nk Crash Tests
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Written on: 02 March 2010 [14:34]
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kensingtongreen
Topic creator
registered since: 11.02.2010
Posts: 7
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Hi, Does anyone have more information about Th!nk crash tests? It would be great to have an in-depth analysis or see some videos. I think this is a very important and neglected issue. The Government needs to pass legislation that would require NEVs and tricycles to undergo similar safety tests. Potentially, the green fleet of the future will be just a hoard of wheeled death-traps. I mean, look at some of the single-seaters or two-seaters. What happens if it collides with a "real" car? |
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Written on: 02 March 2010 [15:26]
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JBode63
 
registered since: 11.02.2010
Posts: 83
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... yes this is a real dilemma! All the benefits achieved by being light and slim (neccessary to be efficient!!!), will be gone when you start to duell with a nowadays used civilian street tank ... How will your sedan look like after being overrun by a 40 ton truck?!? Isn't it time for some "disarmament" on our streets?!? And yes, I mean that! Mentally and physically ... Best Regards - Jörg |
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Written on: 02 March 2010 [15:51]
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kensingtongreen
Topic creator
registered since: 11.02.2010
Posts: 7
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You're right Jörg, it is a dilemma. However, I think with full bodied cars, like Nissan Leaf and the ones that are soon to be produced in France, safety will not be a problem. It is really the egg-shell NEVs that worry me. JBode63 wrote: How will your sedan look like I don't know, I've never driven one. I'm fairly confident that my Cherokee would survive a truck.  I was referring more to things like "everyday" crashes. For example, Mini One meets Reva G-Wiz in a collision. Will the passengers of Reva survive? How severe their injuries will be? |
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Written on: 02 March 2010 [16:43]
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JBode63
registered since: 11.02.2010
Posts: 83
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kensingtongreen wrote: You're right Jörg, it is a dilemma. However, I think with full bodied cars, like Nissan Leaf and the ones that are soon to be produced in France, safety will not be a problem. It is really the egg-shell NEVs that worry me. Yes, but the point is we have to get much more efficient (not only 20 or 30% - this is by far not enough)! kensingtongreen wrote: I'm fairly confident that my Cherokee would survive a truck. Your Cherokee is not safe, being well build - just safe because of sheer mass and height ... kensingtongreen wrote: I was referring more to things like "everyday" crashes. For example, Mini One meets Reva G-Wiz in a collision. Will the passengers of Reva survive? How severe their injuries will be? I believe that most of the everyday crashes are at low speed and with more or less insignificant damage. I have decided to use a very small vehicle (see my avatar). Works well with city traffic. We had a report in Germany where a Velomobile had been crashed by a car - the fibre enforced fairing protected the driver. He had neglectable marks, none-the-less the fairing had been 15cm shorter after the crash (when I remember correctly). I can't see how we should (and could) protect us from all worst cases - stay in bed because we could stumble over some clothes and break the neck?!? Every solution has its pros and cons. The recent way of big cars is putting the cons on the society: energy consumption, space requirement, no crash safety for pedestrians and cyclists, etc ... What about you? There will be from time to time the need to leave your armoured vehicle - how would you judge your safety against other cars then? Especially facing machines like the Cherokee, Hummer, Landcruiser? Yes I know, I sound a bit sarcastic, but I can not see another proposal for a clean/green and sustainable future if we don't try to downscale very significantly. If there is any other option, I would really appreciate to know off! Have you watched the feature "The End of Suburbia"? It summarizes imho the situation and the way how this situation has developed nicely (ok, the facts are not nice) und comprehensive. [This article was edited 2 times, at last 02.03.2010 at 16:44.] |
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Written on: 03 March 2010 [11:29]
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Yardonn
 
registered since: 22.08.2007
Posts: 160
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kensingtongreen wrote: I don't know, I've never driven one. I'm fairly confident that my Cherokee would survive a truck. When a 40 tonn (metric tonns...) truck hits you, your only chance is to be pushed out of the way (which works very well with light vehicles!). In all other case even a Cherokee is crushed ! kensingtongreen wrote: I was referring more to things like "everyday" crashes. For example, Mini One meets Reva G-Wiz in a collision. Will the passengers of Reva survive? How severe their injuries will be? Look at the statistic. Today cars are not save. How many people die in them every day? A crash-test in one thing, reality sometimes another. but one thing is for sure: more light (and not so fast ?) vehicles on the road will bring down the death-toll we pay dayly for our kind of mobility. But of course, the weaker vehicles always pay the higher price. Even though it is that way, people still use motorcycles, bicycles or even there feet to move around... and many of them survive doing so... Alleweder 4
http://www.akkurad.com allmost full weather protection for one person at 0 - 1.5 kWh / 100 km CityEl as secondary E-Car |
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Written on: 03 March 2010 [12:31]
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kensingtongreen
Topic creator
registered since: 11.02.2010
Posts: 7
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Yardonn wrote: but one thing is for sure: more light (and not so fast ?) vehicles on the road will bring down the death-toll Only when the majority of vehicles are light and slow. At the moment, when 90% of the cars are relatively strong and fast and the rest is made of egg-shells, it is dangerous. What I'm trying to say: if we are going to switch to smaller/greener cars, it should be done quickly. JBode63 wrote: I can't see how we should (and could) protect us from all worst cases - stay in bed because we could stumble over some clothes and break the neck?!? Considering the mess in my house, staying in bed would really help!  We certainly cannot protect ourselves from all cases but if there is a sensible protection available (wearing a helmet on a bike or using a rope when cleaning the roof), I think everyone should use it. And if I have a choice between saving the Rainforest or protecting my family from drunken lane-hoppers, I'll have to choose the latter. But the thing is that I don't have to choose. Being a car engineer I am 100% confident that it is possible to build a safe green car!!! By the way, what is that car from your avatar? Is it custom-built? Cars like yours are in a way better than a hard-top body for urban driving because if somebody whacks an open car at a low speed, nothing bad will happen. Now whack a REVA or MEGA from a side even at 10mph and the driver will hit his head because the side pillar is a few inches away from his melon.  That's a problem! JBode63 wrote: Your Cherokee is not safe, being well build - just safe because of sheer mass and height ... Not only the mass. It is built of thicker steel and it has crunch zones everywhere. As it was proved by Volvo and some other safe car makers, the only way to make a car totally safe is to provide crunch zones - material that would absorb the energy of the crash so that our bones don't have to absorb it. I was taking apart a popular European small car a while ago and the construction of the door was totally appalling. There was nothing to absorb a side impact. To me it is unacceptable. That said, there are a lot of alternatives how to make crunch zones green. Look at the F1, yes I know, currently it is expensive, but the crunch-material in the nose of an F1 bolid is super light-weight. Many components are constructed from honeycomb-like structures and made from super-thin aluminium and carbon fibre. We can use a cheaper carbon fibre and, hey, aluminium is dirt-cheap. Carbon fibre is a great material as it can be partly sourced from junk (renewable resource!) If the green cars are to enter the mass production, they HAVE to be safer! There's no way around it. |
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Written on: 03 March 2010 [14:59]
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Yardonn
registered since: 22.08.2007
Posts: 160
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kensingtongreen wrote: Being a car engineer I am 100% confident that it is possible to build a safe green car!!! There is no save car. only relative save. The best way to make driving more save is to avoid accidents. For example a car with a good electronic helpers (ABS, ESP) that result in much less crash risk ist much safer than one what will be relatively good in a crashtest. A green car will avoid accidents rather than looking good afterwards... And an astonishing fact: in the german lightweight vehicle comunity there is no lethal accident with a leigthweight vehicle (we are talking from 50 to 400 kg) known! Several crashes are reported, with heavy damage to the vehicles, but nothing very serious happend to the drivers. As some people might know from some martial arts, the technique of yielding sometimes showes much better result than holding against with brute force. This is not ironic: You want to be save on the road: buy yourself a tank. These vehicles are realy save. All other vehicles make compromises in regard to safety! It is an illusion, that your "five stars in crashsafty" - Car is save. Thousands of dead drievers and passangers show the contrary! kensingtongreen wrote: By the way, what is that car from your avatar? Is it custom-built? See http://www.ecocarforum.com/ev-forums/posts/cityel/e_alleweder.html My Avatar shows an AW4, his an AW6 kensingtongreen wrote: If the green cars are to enter the mass production, they HAVE to be safer! There's no way around it. Well, look at it a different way. If fuelprices rise (significant...), priorities will change. No one will care about side impact, if they don't know, how to pay for the fuel for the next miles... At that point, only mpg will count, the rest will be unaffortably luxury... I am today saving a lot of money by not trailing after illusionary safty, and i can look unworried onto the future, knowing the even a rise by factor 10 in Energy-prices will be no problem to me. But most people will not understand my decission before fuel prices rise rapidly. Alleweder 4
http://www.akkurad.com allmost full weather protection for one person at 0 - 1.5 kWh / 100 km CityEl as secondary E-Car |
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Written on: 03 March 2010 [16:16]
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JBode63
registered since: 11.02.2010
Posts: 83
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Please use these links - those are correct, the link given doe not work ... Ecocar-Forum Akkurad [This article was edited 1 times, at last 03.03.2010 at 16:20.] |
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Written on: 03 March 2010 [16:30]
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kensingtongreen
Topic creator
registered since: 11.02.2010
Posts: 7
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Yardonn wrote: There is no save car. only relative save. The best way to make driving more save is to avoid accidents. I am sure the woman whose daughter was killed in a head-on collision with a drunk idiot, who was driving in a wrong direction would have a different opinion. She was a perfect driver with no point on her licence... still, she got killed... But I see what you mean. Unfortunately, there are drunkards and hash-heads driving around... so, maybe that's the first step we need to take towards traffic safety? Tougher penalties for drink-driving? Yardonn wrote: Several crashes are reported, with heavy damage to the vehicles, but nothing very serious happend to the drivers. This is very interesting. Is there any chance you have a link or more details about this study? I can read German, I'm just not too much of a talker  JBode63 wrote: Please use these links Thank you. [This article was edited 3 times, at last 03.03.2010 at 16:34.] |
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Written on: 03 March 2010 [16:50]
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JBode63
registered since: 11.02.2010
Posts: 83
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kensingtongreen wrote: Yardonn wrote: There is no save car. only relative save. The best way to make driving more save is to avoid accidents. I am sure the woman whose daughter was killed in a head-on collision with a drunk idiot, who was driving in a wrong direction would have a different opinion. She was a perfect driver with no point on her licence... still, she got killed... But I see what you mean. Unfortunately, there are drunkards and hash-heads driving around... so, maybe that's the first step we need to take towards traffic safety? Tougher penalties for drink-driving? Sadly there will not be any idiot (and the like) free world. But you see, even with a full standard car, accidents might be fatal. I see, as we in Germany do it this way, that all the millions of traffic signs, traffic lights and so on lead to more insecurity than intended. The drivers believe what is written and stop using their brains - insist on their "right to drive". We would be much better off with a more simplified but consistend traffic rule system. Including general speed limits. It works very well, that in many cities the speed limit (appart of the main roads) is reduced to 30km/h - and, not to forget, a strict driver from the right comes first. So the people learn again to watch the others and drive more cooperative. This will help to get more efficient and therefore small vehicles onto the street! [This article was edited 1 times, at last 03.03.2010 at 16:53.] |
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