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Forum » EV Forums » Environmental Discussion

The most efficient car...

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Written on: 22 September 2008 [20:46]
Rupert Topic creator registered since: 12.08.2008 Posts: 1	... is obviously a bicycle. Can't get much greener that that, as I am sure all of you will agree. It has been pointed out by someone on this forum that a typical car has four seats, an autonomy of easily 800 km at a speed of 130 km/h and can carry several 100's of kilo's. Compare that to the actual use of a car (usually one person in urban of congestion traffic at low speeds for relatively small distances (I read somewhere the average trip is less then 50 km). So, why wouldn't you start from a bicycle and try to use technology to remove some of it's obvious limitations? I am thinking of a closed or semiclosed vehicle, weighing no more then say 30 kg, mainly powered by muscle power but with electrical assistance to enable you to maintain a speed of 30-40 km/h for a longer distance easily without having to be a trained cyclist. So basically, I am looking for a bike on which you can lay down for aerodynamics, with a cockpit for shelter and some sort of electrical assistance to help you get where you want to be faster, while it still is possible to get around solely on muscle power. The TWIKE is a step in the right direction, but not taken far enough, as it weighs far too much (I read on this forum that you wouldn't get far if you had just mucle power). So it's still too much of a car and too less of a bicycle. Has anyone heard of something that appoaches the above specs? Thanks for your reply. Rupert
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Written on: 23 September 2008 [22:15]
ecoadmin Administrator registered since: 20.07.2007 Posts: 504	Hello Rupert I fully agree with you, the bicycle is the greenest solution by far and it remains one of the best inventions of mankind. Compared to walking, a bicycle takes you a lot further in a lot less time and with little more effort at a very competitive price. The bicycle remains a very competitive transport solution today and beyond. I myself do not have a car at the moment and I use my bicycle to get around or the public transport. Having owned a car before, I must say that I now live healthier because I get to do mor exercising - for free. Its also a lot of fun and its great to cycle around in the fresh air. Its handy, no parking fees, no traffic jams, just freedom. So whats the downside??? Time. Not having a car means you do need more time to travel from A to B. I do live in a country with excellent public transport services but it still takes usually 30-50% more time to get to your destination. Timewise, the bicycle only scores within a range of about 5km. Knowing that it always takes more time to get somewhere, you often decide against a trip. Thats of course good for the environment but it does reduce your 'radius of action'. So if you do have lots of time and do not mind using it for transportation, you really do not have an argument to own a car, at least not where I live. Working full time though, for many people time is precious. Todays life is full of stuff to do. Some of it probably unnecessary and just increasing the level of stress. Since I only ride my bicyle, my level of stress has actually reduced. I started to omit the 'unnecessary, time consuming trips'. The car or vehicle you are suggesting would fill the gap. It gives weather protection and also increases range. The solution you might wanna try is: http://alleweder.de/ It is a lot lighter than a TWIKE and cheaper than a TWIKE. More weight usually means as well a little more comfort. For its weight, the TWIKE does offer quite a lot of that. Good speed, cover, 2 seats, baggage compartment and the possibility to move your muscles. I think today there is a vehicle for any kind of need. Just like with other things: Clothes, Food, Entertainment, Holidays...The choice is yours! Cheers Stephen ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network
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Written on: 25 September 2008 [01:52]
childress Administrator registered since: 14.08.2007 Posts: 131	First-off, be aware I'm a bicyclist and I love to bicycle. HOWEVER, the standard safety bicycle is NOT the greenest nor best/efficient vehicle for human transport. That title belongs to the fully enclosed/faired RECUMBENT bicycle (all land speed records are set by faired recumbents). The standard road/mountain bike safety bicycle is hard on elbows, hands and bum, is unsafe in that it falls over and throws it's rider over the handlebars, requires quite a bit of work to stay dry/warm, and becomes exceedingly dangerous should the front tire blow. Many of these problems are fixed with the drop in center of gravity with a two-wheel recumbent, such as the go-one3 (http://www.go-one.us/). However once you have the need to carry stuff like groceries and other passengers (like taking your kiddos to school/work/doctor, etc) a single-passenger vehicle does not become a complete replacement for a car. Then you take a look at the go-one3's price of US$20 and the paltry range. Then take a look at the components it's manufactured from -- the added weight of the battery packs, light & turn signal system, seat belts... a bicycle frame/components just aren't built to last through a hard winter of potholes/bad roads. I've just completed the first year of ownership of a 10-year-old Twike, and put 3-4,000 miles on it, 99% of them in-town. It -is- a complete replacement of what I needed the car for, and gives me the freedom our public-transit bus system can't (work late, pickup the kiddos from school/daycare on time). I've had to make some repairs, but because it's built out of solid components and good design, even though there is no repair center in the US with the e-mail help from Switzerland/German I was able to do it (I'm a computer tech, not a mechanic -- I HIRE somebody for my bicycle repair work) as well as working at a University I was able to find an Electrical Engineer tech to do some board repair. There were very few days that Der Twike was not able to take me back and forth to work due to needing fixed. If I were single without wife and kids, I would probably look into an electrified folding mountain bicycle like Montague Paratrooper... unlike the electrified and faired 'bent it would fit on both bus and train public transportation and parking would be right beside my desk. Standard parts easily accessible ands easily serviced at a local bicycle shop. And I would rent a car/truck when I needed something more... but alas those years are far behind me Of course you would still have weather/crash/balance issues, as well as durability concerns, but those are something young men rarely concern themselves with The electrified paratrooper can be had for between US$2-3,000. Commute suck? Twike it; You'll like it! http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike
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Written on: 25 September 2008 [02:11]
childress Administrator registered since: 14.08.2007 Posts: 131	Forgot to add that I don't have to worry about people stealing my Twike It's too heavy. A lightweight bicycle can easily be thrown in a car/truck so must be locked up... and the lights/saddle bags removed or stolen... and in the college town I live in bicycle wheels get 'taco'd' by getting kicked in by mischevious drunkards... None of these worries with Der Twike. Heavy can be good sometimes Commute suck? Twike it; You'll like it! http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike
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Written on: 03 August 2009 [13:35]
lilypotter registered since: 26.06.2009 Posts: 8	Yep, i agree bicycle is green car as Rupert and Stephen said. But we cannot opt a bicycle for long distances. And there are some disadvantages as childress said. A bicycles actually helped ease a pollution problem that most of us have forgotten about. Today, they improve the environment in numerous ways.
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Written on: 04 August 2009 [00:52]
Yardonn registered since: 22.08.2007 Posts: 156	Bringing up an old thread... A lot has been done in the last years regarding velomobils. My own experiences can be seen in the E-Allewederthread in the 3-Weeler-Section. Velomibiles are the most efficient mobils on the surface of earth, and it is logical, to use the most efficient motor (electric) to power them beyound the capacity of human power. Electrical assisted Velomobiles are the maximum downsize from a car when keeping weather protection and motor-assistence. Here in Germany we have access to velomobils from more than 10 (little...) manufactures. But only two manufacturers have an allowance for motors supporting above 25 km/h (Alleweder and Sunrider). But it is a rising market, a third producer (GoOne) is testing a "fast" e-Velomobil and production number of "normal" Velomobils are rising. It is a slow change, with significantly less than 1000 units sold altogether in one year here, but it is a change. I believe that electrical assisted velomobils have a significant part in individual mobility of the future. Most people use bikes only in good weather and in flat areas. That can be overcome by this conept. But by sticking to the concept of "can be moved by humanpower only", we may be able to prevent velomobils from becomming bigger and heavier as the cars did in decades of evolution. [This article was edited 1 times, at last 04.08.2009 at 00:54.] Alleweder 4 http://www.akkurad.com allmost full weather protection for one person at 0 - 1.5 kWh / 100 km CityEl as secondary E-Car
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Written on: 12 December 2009 [21:46]
davidthompson registered since: 12.12.2009 Posts: 1	Chevrolet Aveo is most efficient car. car rental malaga
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Written on: 12 December 2009 [23:47]
iamian registered since: 23.02.2009 Posts: 105	davidthompson wrote: Chevrolet Aveo is most efficient car. going to have to disagree with you. CdA is the aerodynamic drag ... larger number means more wasted energy. Weight means more energy for rolling resistance , acceleration , and hills. Aveo: CdA = ~0.74 Weight = ~2,400 Lbs Gen-I Honda Insight: CdA = ~0.474 ( ~36% less energy wasted ) Weight = ~1,847 Lbs ( ~23% less energy wasted ) Twike: CdA = ~0.232 ( ~68% less energy wasted ) Weight = ~542 Lbs ( ~77% less energy wasted ) 2000 MT Honda Insight MIMA & FAS equipped ... PHEV in progress. Franken E-Bike 36V NiMH 600W Hub-Motor.
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Written on: 18 January 2010 [08:42]
samjackson registered since: 18.01.2010 Posts: 3	Yes, I agree. The most efficient car is definitely a bicycle. It uses no gas to harm our environment that's why I, personally, am using using it especially if it's just a short journey.
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Written on: 23 January 2010 [18:07]
Yardonn registered since: 22.08.2007 Posts: 156	a bicycle is not a car ! A car is something that is propelled by an motor of some kind and usualy grants some kind of weather protection. Sure we should not use a car unless it is "nessecary", but when we "need" a car, a bicyle is not a solution. And though my "car" can be propelled by pedaling and has, it would not be correct to call is a bicyle due to electric motor and chassis... Alleweder 4 http://www.akkurad.com allmost full weather protection for one person at 0 - 1.5 kWh / 100 km CityEl as secondary E-Car
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