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Forum » Electric Vehicles (EV) Forums » Other EV's - 3-wheelers and micro electric cars

CityEl future....

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Author	Message
Written on: 07. 09. 07 [10:42]
ecoadmin Administrator Topic creator registered since: 20.07.2007 Posts: 387	Dear CityEl drivers and lovers, With the amount of new eco-friendly vehicles on the doorstep, what are your thought about the future of the CityEl? The CityEl has been around for many years and I would think they have accumulated a lot of experience in this field. Are there any plans for the CityEl 2.0? Cheers, ecoadmin ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network Community for sustainable transport
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Written on: 05. 06. 08 [21:24]
insight registered since: 26.04.2008 Posts: 14	The city el is ideal as it is,why? because it is a minimalist EV built down to a minimum weight..minimum passenger ie driver only...which equates to minimum batteries 3 X 12 volt...light wt suspension and wheels.It will with this minimum design go the same distance and speed as some car based units. I do think refinements could be made and Lithium batteries would be an improvement in weight savings and increased range but the price would go up. Maybe a better idea would be to move production to China then the City El would have a price low enough to attract the masses. Insight
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Written on: 05. 06. 08 [21:40]
insight registered since: 26.04.2008 Posts: 14	Additional to my last post on the City El one improvement to the original design I would like to see would be wheel motors instead of the internal motor with belt drive.This would improve efficiency,eliminate parts and maintenance of belt plus free up space in the bodywork. Also an option of solar panels integrated into the upper body work would be nice so its always trickle charging when exposed to sunlite. On the down side this may add too much weight. Insight
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Written on: 06. 06. 08 [03:25]
Lensman registered since: 31.05.2008 Posts: 81	A rule of thumb I've read regarding automobile engineering is that "unsprung weight counts twice as much as sprung weight". And in-wheel motors are unsprung weight. I don't fully understand why the difference between sprung and unsprung weight is so important, but this Wikipedia article provides some information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsprung_weight The important difference between sprung and unsprung weight certainly explains why more electric cars don't use in-wheel motors.
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Written on: 06. 06. 08 [15:47]
wilfriedm registered since: 06.06.2008 Posts: 2	Hallo, das CityEl hatte ich schon 1990 mal in München über ein Wochenende begeistert erprobt mit der Erkenntnis, daß - die Reichweitevon 40km definitiv zu gering ist. Mindestens 60-100km sind erforderlich. - Vmax mit 50km/h (oder waren es 45?) zu langsam sind, um kein Verkehrshindernis zu sein. Mindestens 60km/h erforderlich. - die Ladezeit zu lang ist.OK, hier gibt es neue Ansätze für Batterietausch an der Tankstelle u.ä.aber wann? - Nur eine Person im Auto zu wenig ist. Mindestens zwei. Daher ist meine erste Wahl der Loremo, wenn er denn kommt. Nachdem nun sogar das Twike mit den Benzinern Frieden schließt und einen Range extender verwendet und ich bei Aldi einen Generator mit ca. 4,5 KW für 199.-€ gesehen habe, würde mich interessieren, ob jemand Informationen hat, ob das beim CityEl funktionieren würde, sich so ein Teil hinten reinzustellen, die Abgasleitung nach draussen, Headphones auf und los geht´s .... Gruß Wilfried
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Written on: 06. 06. 08 [22:15]
ecoadmin Administrator Topic creator registered since: 20.07.2007 Posts: 387	Hello, I am delighted to see some activity on this forum! But may I remind you wilfriedm that the language on this forum is English... If you would like to write in german, please use our German Forum Section. Thank you! If you don't mind, I will copy the text and add the post to the German Forum. @Lensman and Insight Interesting post. I've never heard about "unsprung weight". I can well imagine that a 'heavy wheel' does not add to more comfort and grip. An interesting point to consider when designing a vehicle. On the other hand wheel motors do increase efficiency and eliminate parts, which is a good thing...Guess you can't just have all the benefits and there are always two sides with everything. Finding the right compromise is the difficult task. It was a good and simple one-man, low-cost EV and served many people well over the last decades, but I think a facelift and some minor improvements would do it good (and keeps potential buyers interested). ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network Community for sustainable transport
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Written on: 08. 06. 08 [12:34]
wilfriedm registered since: 06.06.2008 Posts: 2	sorry, did´nt know. I always only read the english section and thought that we are educated and cosmopolitain enough to switch languages at least passively. BTW i like the site very much and enjoy reading all the news. I will try to find the german section (?) servus Wilfried
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Written on: 15. 06. 08 [14:13]
Franko30 Moderator registered since: 08.09.2007 Posts: 65	ecoadmin wrote: @Lensman and Insight Interesting post. I've never heard about "unsprung weight". I can well imagine that a 'heavy wheel' does not add to more comfort and grip. An interesting point to consider when designing a vehicle. Hi, I read the Wikipedia article - from what I understand the unsprung weight only affects the comfort, not the range of a vehicle. And another thought: as the wheels are connected to the vehicle via shock absorbers, there shouldn't be any problems (comfort wise) with in wheel motors... Cheers Franko30 TW 808 / 20 AH LiIon-Akkus seit 03/2008 / Höchste Reichweite bisher: 140 km. Verbrauch 6,3 kWh/100 km (372 US-miles per Gallon)
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Written on: 17. 06. 08 [06:39]
childress registered since: 14.08.2007 Posts: 81	Wilfried: Unfortunately in the US we are not taught a second third or 4th language when the time is right -- we have the research that shows languages should be introduced during the 0th-6th year of childhood, however we do not heed our own University's teachings! So alas, even those Americans that ARE cosmopolitan and WANT to communicate in a foreign language have great difficulty learning it later in life (typically foreign languages are not taught until school years 9-12) I learned Spanish and a bit of Japanese... shoulda' learned German For the German impaired that still want to communicate, if you put your brain in an altered state you can maybe understand the Google Translation of Wilfried's writing: Hello, I had the CityEl times in 1990 in Munich on a weekend tested thrilled with the recognition that -- Reichweitevon 40km definitely too low. At least 60-100km are required. -- Top speed of 50km / h (or was it 45?) Are too slow to have no Traffic obstacle. At least 60km / h required. -- The loading time too long ist.OK, there are new approaches to Battery exchange at the gas station u.ä.aber when? -- Only one person in the car too little. At least two. It is my first choice of Loremo when he comes. Now even the Twike with petrol and make peace a range extender, and I have a generator with Aldi about 4.5 KW for the 199th - € have seen, I would be interested to know whether someone has information, whether at the CityEl would work, as a part reinzustellen rear, the exhaust pipe to outside, Headphones and go .... Greeting Commute suck? Twike it; You'll like it! http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike
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Written on: 17. 06. 08 [11:53]
insight registered since: 26.04.2008 Posts: 14	The idea of of clean EVs is not to have an exhaust...how bout solar panels or hybrid pedal power as in the Twike instead of a dirty generator. Once again if the City El were to grow in size or weight every other component would have to be upgraded as well adding to the weight and battery demand.Weight is the enemy in a highly efficient vehicle whether it be a bike or sailplane or a road car. This is where refining the design by using wheel motors that eliminate weight and complexity could be used. This can benefit either the performance and range or the addition of another passenger. Unsprung weight is a factor but not that important for use in a relatively low speed vehicle.It would basically be down to the ratio of the sprung to unsprung weight with the passenger/car body/components/battery/mass acting against tire/wheel/motor weight which would not be that great.Wheel motors for this type vehicle can be very light weight.
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