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How efficient are trains?
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Written on: 15. 06. 08 [17:01]
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ecoadmin
Administrator
Topic creator
registered since: 20.07.2007
Posts: 387
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On my quest to learn more about sustainable transport systems, more questions need to be answered! Public Transport is generally praised as an eco-friendly way of getting around. And we probably all agree that whenever we hop onto a non-human powered transport system, we need energy to move it forward. But how much is really used to operate a train network? How do electrically powered trains compare to diesel trains? How does the Life Cycle Assessment of a train system look like compared to efficient road transport? Does anyone have resources, answers to this topic? Cheers Stefan ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network
Community for sustainable transport |
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Written on: 16. 06. 08 [19:08]
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Lensman
 registered since: 31.05.2008
Posts: 81
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I don't have any numbers, but my understanding is that trains are much more efficient at moving freight than trucks. At least in the USA, it's said trucks do much more damage to the highways than the truck taxes pay for. So basically we're subsidizing the trucking industry over trains. This is pretty stupid, as trucks cause heavy damage to our highways. It's much cheaper to maintain a railroad than it is to continually repair highways damaged by heavy trucks. And of course, as I suspect most on this forum know, it's much more energy-efficient to pull 100 cars of freight with two train locomotives than it is for one tractor-trailer rig to haul one (or even two) trailers of freight. I don't see truckers being put out of business by high oil prices being a tragedy, at all! I think it's a very good thing that economic forces are currently at work that will force more freight to be moved by rail. That will result in less pollution and lower taxes-- a win-win situation for Mother Earth and our wallets! No doubt this post will get me on the Teamster Union's hit list... 
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Written on: 17. 06. 08 [06:54]
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childress
registered since: 14.08.2007
Posts: 81
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Trains are the original hybrid vehicle! Most trains in the US now-a-days are diesel-electric hybrids. There's a great article that explains the hows and whys here http://science.howstuffworks.com/diesel-locomotive.htm The general idea is that the diesel engine can run at its optimal RPM and generate electricity, and the electric motors do not require gearing (think of how many gears a tractor trailer -- semi-truck in US English) needs to get going, and a train would need so much more. If you're interested in trains, I highly recommend this article -- I learn something every time I reference it, like the fact that Train Locomotives use sand sprayers on their drive wheels to increase the traction. So cool! I love trains. I just want to see if I can get Amtrak to take my Twike on the Train to Chicago. That'd be the ultimate in eco-long distance/local travel (I'm about 2 hours south of Chicago where my inlaws live) Commute suck? Twike it; You'll like it!
http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike |
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Written on: 17. 06. 08 [13:59]
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Ralf.Z
registered since: 17.06.2008
Posts: 1
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ecoadmin wrote: But how much is really used to operate a train network? How do electrically powered trains compare to diesel trains? I am no expert on this. But reading the page http://science.howstuffworks.com/diesel-locomotive1.htm it says "A huge locomotive like this uses an average of 1.5 gallons of diesel per mile (352 L per 100 km) when towing about five passenger cars." If I assume that each passenger car has 60 persons in it then I can calculate 352 / 5 / 60 = 1,2 Liters of Diesel per 100km and Person That is not bad. As I said, this is based on the information from the web site and my assumptions. I guess this is a good indication of the efficiency. Ralf TWIKE 845 Munich, Germany |
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Written on: 25. 06. 08 [22:13]
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ecoadmin
Administrator
Topic creator
registered since: 20.07.2007
Posts: 387
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Thanks for your tips Ralf and Matt. I will read up on it...In the meanwhile I've learned quite a lot about car efficiency but not so much about public transport systems. They do form an important part in our everyday transportation needs and I would like to know more about their efficiency and technology. Thanks for the great link! Cheers ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network
Community for sustainable transport |
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Written on: 27. 06. 08 [01:04]
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Cparkinson
registered since: 13.06.2008
Posts: 1
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Lensman wrote: I don't have any numbers, but my understanding is that trains are much more efficient at moving freight than trucks. At least in the USA, it's said trucks do much more damage to the highways than the truck taxes pay for. So basically we're subsidizing the trucking industry over trains. This is pretty stupid, as trucks cause heavy damage to our highways. It's much cheaper to maintain a railroad than it is to continually repair highways damaged by heavy trucks. And of course, as I suspect most on this forum know, it's much more energy-efficient to pull 100 cars of freight with two train locomotives than it is for one tractor-trailer rig to haul one (or even two) trailers of freight. I don't see truckers being put out of business by high oil prices being a tragedy, at all! I think it's a very good thing that economic forces are currently at work that will force more freight to be moved by rail. That will result in less pollution and lower taxes-- a win-win situation for Mother Earth and our wallets! No doubt this post will get me on the Teamster Union's hit list... hello everyone, I think you make a good point about how trucks damage not only the roads, but the air and noise pollution factor in as well. However, in Canada there have been a rash of freight train accidents that severely damage the environment. They are apparently being blamed on human error, so is technology causing humans to get lazy on the job? Just a thought for the day! number plates |
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Written on: 30. 09. 08 [14:04]
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Franko30
Moderator
registered since: 08.09.2007
Posts: 65
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ecoadmin wrote: But how much is really used to operate a train network? How do electrically powered trains compare to diesel trains? Hi, you might want to check out the website of "Deutsche Bahn" http://www.bahn.de the formerly state owned German train company. They offer s.th. called "Umweltmobilcheck" a service that lets you compare the environmental impact of trains, cars and planes for every destination you can book via their online booking system. Actually, you don't have to book a train ride, you can also use it when playing around with different destinations. This is not a life cycle analysis of a train system - but at least you can compare the direct effects of taking a car vs. taking the train or a plane. The tool is also available when using the English version of the website - just choose your language at the top right of the main page. The feature you're looking for is called "Environmental Mobility Check" and is available once you entered a query for a train ride from destination A (e.g. Stuttgart) to destination B (e.g. Berlin). Unfortunately, the science behind this (assumptions on how full the trains are etc.) is only available in German: http://www.bahn.de/p/view/planen/reiseplanung/umc/1_umweltbilanz.shtml and at the bottom of that page a PDF-Document: http://www.bahn.de/p/view/mdb/pv/pdf/MDB30634-grundlagenbericht_ifeu_umc2006.pdf Cheers Franko30 TW 808 / 20 AH LiIon-Akkus seit 03/2008 / Höchste Reichweite bisher: 140 km. Verbrauch 6,3 kWh/100 km (372 US-miles per Gallon)
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