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Forum » Electric Vehicles (EV) Forums » TWIKE

How many TWIKEs in the US, CAN and UK?

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Written on: 16. 12. 07 [13:37]
ecoadmin Administrator Topic creator registered since: 20.07.2007 Posts: 387	Hello, Does anyone have a clue how many TWIKES are on the roads outside Germany? Is there a trend that more are being sold to the US, CAN and UK recently? According the owners list on twikeklub.ch, there are 20 stationed in the US, 1 in CAN and three in the UK. ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network Community for sustainable transport
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Written on: 11. 02. 08 [19:01]
childress registered since: 14.08.2007 Posts: 81	I get asked this question a lot for the US. I typically give out a very nebulus (ie, vague/uncertain) answer of between 10-20, there are 20 Twikes listed to US owners on the Twike Pilot's registration page, of which an unknown number could be considered 'on the road'. Stephan Meister who did the US '05 Twike repair tour, says in his blog of the tourn that there are 25 Twikes 'on the road' in the US. I don't think it's that high, personally. I know that the Twikes listed below as 'Hermseyer/Portland Oregon' had some severe battery issues (#433, the one I am now caretaker of, had its batteries replaced in the '05 repair tour), so unless they have had their batteries replaced, I would be very cautious calling them 'on the road' -- they essentially sat too long without having their batteries used. When looking to buy any EV, always ask about the batteries when buying an EV, when they were replaced, and what the current mileage they're capable of achieving, and GET IT IN WRITING. The majority of the cost of an EV is battery replacement; an EV with damaged/almost dead batteries is not worth much, depending on how much battery replacement will cost you (for a Twike, US$5-9,000, depending greatly on the US$/euro exchange rate, the type of battery you choose, etc). What is exciting is Twike #812, the first commercially imported Twike to the US for over 10 years... I've heard rumors of having to 'sneak' Twikes through US Customs, by calling a Twike an 'electric forklift' or as kits... M@ TW 049 TB Wood's Inc USA 17201 Chambersburg, Pennsylvania TW 080 Robnett USA 04106 South Portland Maine TW 085 Hermsmeyer USA 97213 Portland Oregon TW 103 Impson USA Hot Springs Arkansas TW 122 Hermsmeyer USA 97213 Portland Oregon TW 159 T & L TOOLS USA 06335 Gales Ferry/HartfordConnecticut TW 213 Weitzmann USA 55304 Andover 55304 TW 262 Breitinger USA 46383 Valparaiso, Indiana TW 408 Hermsmeyer USA 97213 Portland Oregon TW 431 Hermsmeyer USA 97213 Portland Oregon TW 433 Childress USA 61821   Champaign Illinois TW 434 Hermsmeyer USA 97213 Portland Oregon TW 435 Hermsmeyer USA 97213 Portland Oregon TW 458 Edina Bike & Sport USA 55424 Edina Minneapolis MN TW 472 Breitinger USA 46383 Valparaiso, Indiana TW 493 Jackson USA 45220 Cincinnati OH 45220 TW 494 Edina Bike & Sport USA 55424 Edina Minneapolis MN TW 507 Patterson USA 93012   Camarillo CA TW 561 Edina Bike & Sport USA 55424   Edina Minneapolis MN TW 812 Irish USA 92116 San Diego CA derived from http://ds1.dreifels.ch/twikeklub/page.asp?DH=202 [This article was edited 1 times, at last 11.02.2008 at 20:23.] Commute suck? Twike it; You'll like it! http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike
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Written on: 24. 02. 08 [21:04]
ecoadmin Administrator Topic creator registered since: 20.07.2007 Posts: 387	Hello, Many thanks for these 'Twike Facts' from the US. You mentioned that the Twikes listed under Hermseyer/Portland Oregon had some severe battery issues. Why only these Twikes? Did they use other battery types than the ones supplied by the manufacturer? Great to hear that another Twike made its way to the US (No 812). It certainly would help to have a repair/service/sales center in the US to boost the sales over there. But it seems that the production facility in Germany is at the moment running at the limit. But who knows, if the positive sales trend continues, FineMobile might expand its activities! Cheers, Stefan ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network Community for sustainable transport
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Written on: 25. 02. 08 [17:50]
childress registered since: 14.08.2007 Posts: 81	I was not directly involved, so all of this information is second-third-or-forth hand information (in perhaps plainer English, I heard it from somebody who heard it from someone else). So the accuracy/veracity is questionable, but it makes sense, and if anyone else wishes to correct me, I take no offense and mean no offense should my story be wrong. The Twike that I currently have the pleasure of driving (Powerplant 433) is one of those Twikes, and I wouldn't give it up for the world... or at least until I get a new one The Twikes from Portland Oregon were to my knowledge one of the biggest 'mass imports' into the US (around 10 or so of them) back in 1998. I was told by Margaret (433's previous owner) that they were imported as a test program for the delivery of US Mail, but that the Postal Worker's Union balked at the pedals/pedaling... They then sat unused in a warehouse for several (5+?) years, and were sold as like-new/demo models for US$14,000 or so, plus delivery, taxes licensing, etc. Anyone who is familiar with EV's and battery technology knows what that means -- it is very, very bad to let batteries sit unexercised. For those unfamiliar with batteries/EV's, it sounds odd, but it is better that they be used fairly frequently than sit. Needless to say, the new owners were not happy when their 'like new' Twikes arrived with batteries that had sat for far too long. The batteries were essentially worthless, and that's a major cost of an EV, not to mention the Twike (about 1/3 of the cost of a new Twike). Legal threats ensued and it was a potential bad hit to the Twike's reputation in the US. I do not know how it was resolved with other individuals. I did correspond via e-mail with two of the individuals. Margaret however worked very hard to try to re-train her batteries, thinking that they had NiCad memory effect and that's why her performance/mileage was so poor. She is a freelance pianist and a very sweet individual and so legal battles were not in her nature. Instead she opted to get her batteries replaced and an extra pack added in the US Twike Tour of 2005 (a repair tour) as well as have the rear axel strengthed (for the extra battery pack weight) as well as other relatively minor repair work done (she also kept all the receipts). So 433's batteries are about 2-3 years old and performing beautifully. If I hit a really big bump/pothole (as in, bonejarring for me) it will cause the computer to reset (ie, a brief power failure). The computer does not require re-input of the password though, thankfully. Other things about 433, (and I assume her brothers & sisters): * - They do not have the software upgrade that triggers the brake lights when the regenerative braking is used. This is a serious safety issue that I compensate for by making sure to engage the manual brakes just a touch whenever I see a vehicle in my rearview mirror. This is one of the first things I want to have fixed that I can't do myself/need instructions from Germany or need to send a board in. * - They fog up very badly, and you can't use an ice scraper on them, and if the windshield wiper has -any- grit on it, it will scratch the windscreen. The fogging issue is very dangerous... more so than the above brake light issue, especially when combined with rain, nighttime (the headlight glare from other vehicles in your eyes) and winter/cold -- all of which combine to reduce visibility, which is critical in a motorcycle/bicycle/twike to look out for the other more weighty vehicles. This happens more frequently than one would expect. * - The design used to engage the the brakes on the pedals causes a rather loud 'clicking' sound when you pedal (it uses a 'ratchet' style, so about every 1/4 revolution of the pedals, the ratchet pin falls, and you hear the metal-against-metal). You get used to it, but it does make it hard to pedal and talk to your passenger. This also makes using the manual brakes interesting/sometimes dangerous, as most of the time you only have to backpedal a little bit to engage the brakes, but if the pin has 'just fallen' you have to backpedal a full 1/4 turn before the brakes engage. Doesn't sound like much, but it's huge when you're slowly rolling into on-comming traffic and you backpedal 'the normal amount' and nothing happens... eek! * - Which leads to the rollback problem: If the pedals are engaged (gearbox is in 'E') and the Twike rolls backwards, it will self-brake against the ratcheting pin (there's no 'freewheel' on a Twike -- it acts as a fixed-gear bicycle would, but with gears). At this point there will be the full weight of the Twike against the pedals, so there is no way to turn the brakes off via 'pedaling forward' as one normally would do. Disengaging from 'E' and moving to the middle position ('F' I believe -- I've not looked at it in quite a while) disengages the pedals from the drivetrain and so fixes the situation. Sometimes quite a bit of force is required to do this, so it is much better to not let this happen (or perhaps get out and roll the Twike forward and push the handbrake forward once the pedals are cleared. * - The plastic has become brittle with time on the seats -- when I took 433's seats apart over Christmas to wash the covers, they broke/were broken in several places. A little fiberglass material and some bondo (fiberglass paste) and things were back together, stronger than ever. The seats are amazingly comfortable and form-fitted considering what they're made of! * - As noted in other places on this forum, the older Twikes are drafty. Due to the nature of the pop-up canopy, in a downpour getting into/out of the Twike in a parking spot that is uncovered, the Twike gets a significant amount of water in it. Water+Electricity... I've not had water enter while I was driving, and I've driven it through standing water. * - The inability to open the windows from the inside is annoying, especially when the fogging problem starts and it's raining outside. * - In order to pass US inspection, the nice Twike round mirrors were replaced with standard US motorcycle mirrors. Not only ugly, but also very dangerous as the mirror is situated such that you can't see a car behind it while sitting at a 4-way stop/intersection. Also high on the list for replacement with standard European Twike parts. Doesn't have a stamp on it that it meets US specifications, but is safer in real-life use. * - Oh yes, and the rear lights WERE 10-year old US-government approved trailer lights. Very boxy, and to me very ugly. It's one of the first things I replaced (and fried a portion of a board doing). They're now lovely round LED lights that never should need replacing. I'll try to get a photo up soon. Still need to replace the reverse light (which won't function correctly until the board is replaced) and I've no idea what the 'extra' red light is for in most Twike photos (it sits opposite the reverse light). Ok, all that being said, I LOVE, LOVE, LOVE 433, as do my two girls, aged 6 and 1 years old... and that is one of the principle reasons why I bought it -- to show the next generations (I work on-campus at the University of Illinois, which every year has approximately 10,000 or so of 'the US's leaders' go through it) that it is fairly easily possible, if you're willing to put in a little effort to reduce your personal oil/co2 emissions. Commute suck? Twike it; You'll like it! http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike
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Written on: 25. 02. 08 [22:43]
childress registered since: 14.08.2007 Posts: 81	ecoadmin wrote: It certainly would help to have a repair/service/sales center in the US to boost the sales over there. But it seems that the production facility in Germany is at the moment running at the limit. There is very much a demand in the US for electric vehicles; the problem is that the big 3 auto manufacturers do not see the demand as significant at their production levels, and the vehicles that they wish to manufacture are full-blown cars. They choose to ignore the first rule of greeness -- REDUCE, reuse, recycle. This at a time when 50-80% of Americans drive 50 or less miles a day, in single passenger vehicle (2-5,000lbs to 'deliver' a 100-300lb driver). The Twike therefore fits this niche quite well, and as a 'city car' I don't see a lot of competition from the big 3 (Ford blew-off Th!nk in the US), much as they don't care to get into the motorcycle business. A lot of the US demand comes from 'I'll believe it when I see it' -- word of mouth from a friend has a much stronger marketing weight than any advertisement campaign a company could put on. Once folks see YOU actually driving around daily in your EV, it clicks in their brain that "Hey, I could do that too". Then you tell them you'd love to sell them one, but you're still waiting for your new one... The two things that amaze me the most is the reactions to the sticker price (ie, the ones that say 'Hey, that's not so bad') and the cross-cultural appeal -- I've gotten numerous inquiries from guys and gals from ethnicities that are stereotypically seen as crotch-rocket motorcyclists, hot-rodders or 'Pimp my ride'... then they hear it doesn't run on gas and see me keeping up (and sometimes, I admit -- speeding to pass) with traffic. Folks are looking for 'the next Prius' and the auto manufacturers are dragging their feet: I am only aware of two electric vehicles that you can easily purchase in the US and actually get. The GEM (global electric motorcar) www.gemcar.com, which is limited by law to 20mph (32kph) as it has 4 wheels on the ground, and the Zap Xebra www.zapworld.com, a Chinese import that has a stated top speed of 40mph (64kph) and a range of 25-40 miles (40-65km), depending on extended battery options. This of course should be taken with a grain of salt, as EV manufacturers tend to stretch the truth more than auto manufacturer's with their EPA numbers (the US regulatory agency for determining miles-per-gallon). There is one ZAP in town and I've yet to manage an exchange of rides (the owner garages it over the winter, whereas I am determined to use the Twike as my primary vehicle as often as possible). In-town street traffic in the US routinely goes 5-10mph (8-16kph) over the marked speed limit. Therefore to safely move at the speed of traffic, a vehicle needs to be able to achive 40-45mph on a street listed as '35mph', and 55 on a street marked '45 mph speed limit'. Therefore you can see a 40mph stated max speed like the ZAP Xebra (which, like I said, is often stretched) vehicle is 'slow' on many 'town' roads in the US. I tend to avoid these roads (45mph) as much as possible, but sometimes there's no other route to get to where I need to go. Until such a point as there is a repair facility in the US, American Twike pilots -- no -- Western Hemisphere Twike pilots must be very self-sufficient, or find an auto mechanic that is willing to take on 'the weird little car' with the 280-400 Volt battery packs. As such I firmly feel it will remain a hobbiest vehicle and not something a normal person could depend on for a daily driver (our family of 4 has 2 'normal' cars as well as the Twike), as all parts must be shipped from Germany, and any significant repairs require shipment of the broken board back to Germany or flying a German engineer to the US... I've been driving on partially zapped board (most likely blew some MOSFETs) for 3-4 months expressly because I can't bear to be without 433 for an extended length of time. I did it changing the lights, at which point I decided to swap them out with LED lights so they'd never have to be replaced again... and look nicer as well). If you're going to have all the parts in stock to repair a Twike and invest in the personnel training/space/tools, why not setup to assemble those parts into Twikes, and later start manufacturing the harder-to-get-from Germany parts (ie, an Assembly plant, to get around US Customs, and then a full-fledged 'motorcycle' Factory)? The hardest part is finding funding... and people believing that it's not too crazy to be done in the US... which, again, is another reason I drive 'the crazy little car' back and forth to work The more U of I students I expose, the more likely it is that it'll happen... Oh yeah, that, and oil hit US$100 a barrel last week, and we're currently driving on the cheaper winter gasoline mix and we're heading into a recession ("stagflation" is the current buzzword -- stagnant economy combined with inflation). I firmly believe we're going to see US$4.00 a gallon this summer. Never underestimate the price-at-the-pump as an incentive to try one of those 'crazy little cars'. American's are highly motivated by their wallets, even when long-term they'd be ahead of the game keeping their gas car: Paying US$60-80 to fill up your tank versus US$20-30 a year or two ago is a huge motivating factor to think different. Me, I invest in a 10-year old electric car/motorcycle and BP (British/Beyond Petroleum)... M@ Commute suck? Twike it; You'll like it! http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike
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Written on: 29. 02. 08 [13:42]
ecoadmin Administrator Topic creator registered since: 20.07.2007 Posts: 387	Thanks so much for your very valuable information of owning a Twike in the US. Very onestly written and you stick to facts. A very good resource for anyone thinking of buying a Twike in the US or Canada. I did not know that the bro's and sisters of 433 were intended to be used by postal workers! Would be great if mail is delivered in a Twike... I hope that the reputation of the Twike in the US has recovered since. Buying a new Twike in the US Sorry if I ask this question again, you might have mentioned it already once... .Can a potential US buyer expect to wait longer for a new Twike compared to his/her counterpart in Europe? I was browsing to the http://www.twike.us website and it says that the production of Twikes for 2007 is sold out but orders are taken for the 2008 production. Unfortunately it also does not mention the new Li-Ion batteries on the site yet... .Service Center in California or US FineMobile is also seeking an import partner in the US which posesses all the required licences...problem here is to find funding and someone which does not believe its too crazy to realize...(your words Matt)...I cross my fingers! .Talking about Twike in the US, have you made contact with Mike Patterson? He seems to be person to speak to if one wants to buy a Twike. I've been in contact with him a few month ago and back then he said that production is sold out for some time to come and thats the reason why it is not actively promoted in the US at the moment as it does not make sense to promote a vehicle which is not available. .You say that the windscreen cannot be cleaned from ice with an ice scaper if there is any grit on it as it would leave scatches. Does this apply only to the acrylic glas (plexiglas) windows used on Swiss Twikes? I know that german registered Twikes need a different windshield (auto safety glass or similiar) because they are registered as cars. These windshileds are a lot heavier, but might perform better when removing frost? What windshields are used on US Twikes? Thank you so much much M@ for taking time to answer all these questions. I hope they not only help me to understand the Twike and its history better but also future Twike owners! Cheers Stefan ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network Community for sustainable transport
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Written on: 29. 02. 08 [23:07]
jstack6 registered since: 27.10.2007 Posts: 30	I tried to order one in Arizona in 2006. They said they would have the NiMH batter Twike for about $20K, by the time they were ready to deliever it the price jumped to over $28K. An Aptera would be about the same cost. Even better I got an 05 Prius and will add the plug-in option from A123. It will still be 5K less thana Twike and carry 5 peole, with air and heat and unlimited range. Oh so I only get 60 mpg now and will get 100-200 with the plug in. I'd love to be all electric but have to be able to use 1 vehicle year around for everything. No SUV for me , just the best logical choice.
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Written on: 01. 03. 08 [12:10]
ecoadmin Administrator Topic creator registered since: 20.07.2007 Posts: 387	Hi jstack, I was also surprised by the fact that the price had jumped from 20k to 28k. Not really the best marketing trick! On top of that there were other setbacks for the Twike in the US earlier on (see other posts). And: there is still no Service Center. Legislation continues to be a hurdle. But there is as well light at the end of the tunnel! There are people out there who untiringly work for a better presence of the vehicle in the US. And who knows one day maybe also the US sees its first Twike Center. And with more EV's on the road (battries sold), maybe also the prices will come down a bit... In Europe the situation looks a lot different. The Twike community is very active and there are now many Service and Repair Stations available. That is an important factor for many when buying an EV. I fully agree that the Twike does not suit everyone and although the choice on available EV's is thinner than on regular gas powered cars, there are alternatives to the Twike. Important is that we as consumers realize that we have to change our habits and start reducing our energy consumption when driving and elsewhere. The more the better! Safe driving. ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network Community for sustainable transport
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Written on: 23. 04. 08 [06:05]
childress registered since: 14.08.2007 Posts: 81	Sorry, been off the board for awhile The jump in price has nothing to do with manipulation by Twike USA or FINE Mobile -- it has everything to do with the slide of the US dollar against world currencies. Compare the historical exchange rates of the dollar and the Euro, and you'll find the answer. The windshields on the older Swiss-LEM Tiwkes are Mecaplex (similar to plexiglas) which makes it very lightweight, but easily scratches. I am currently unclear as to where the bottleneck is regarding Twikes in the US. I've heard it's manufacturing problems in Germany, but this is contradicted from information from Stephan that he can get a Twike in a couple of months. I suspect that it is import problems, ergo my desire to get an assembly plant in the US. As an owner of a 10-year-old Twike, I can personally attest that the vehicle is -very- user friendly in terms of being able to repair. I am not by any means a mechanic, but I have worked on cars with my father growing up, and with e-mail help from Stephan Meister who did the '05 US Repair tour, and on-site help from my Dad, I've been able to perform several repairs on Twike 433 and make improvements. The legislation in the individual states in the US is not typically a problem; the problem is that the Twike is not on the list of vehicles that are legal to import to the United States (Federal, not State level). Therefore they must go through an individual known as a registered importer, who verifies that the specific parts on the Twike meet the NHSTA (National Highway and Safety Transportation Administration) standards. Otherwise the vehicle is held up by US Customs. Obviously the ideal goal would be either to get the Twike on the approved list, or manufacture them in the US from parts that bear the DOT (Department of Transportation) label, which means that they meet the NHSTA standards. With the slide of the US dollar, manufacturing in the US actually is a good economic move, as they could be built cheaper here and exported to Canada/the rest of the Western Hemisphere. Commute suck? Twike it; You'll like it! http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike
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