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Forum » Electric Vehicles (EV) Forums » TWIKE

Legal in Canada?

Author	Message
Written on: 26. 01. 08 [19:16]
Antigonish Topic creator registered since: 26.01.2008 Posts: 2	I would love to get a Twike here in Nova Scotia (Canada). I sounds like getting it registered and licensed could be a hassle. Has anyone had experience with this that they could share?
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Written on: 27. 01. 08 [19:26]
ecoadmin Administrator registered since: 20.07.2007 Posts: 367	Hello Antigonish and welcome to the green car network! I am not from Canada but I think it should be possible to find out how to get the registration done. As far as I know there has been only one Twike registered in Canada so far. It is Twike 662 and it went to someone called Bermingham in Hamilton. Maybe you find a way to get in touch with the owner of Twike 662 and I am sure if you succeed, he or she will be willing to help. The list of Twike pilots can be found on the web: http://ds1.dreifels.ch/twikeklub/page.asp?DH=202 I've also sent the owner of the Canadian Twike website (twike.ca) an e-mail. Hopefully we can get help and advice from there too. A response would be posted either by him/her directly or to my e-mail address. I will keep you posted if I found out anything about it. I've also contacted the manufacturer, they might know more about this issue too. I will post any answer from them as soon as I have it. It would be great to have another Twike in Canada! Stefan ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network Community for sustainable transport
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Written on: 30. 01. 08 [23:37]
ecoadmin Administrator registered since: 20.07.2007 Posts: 367	Hello again, I've received some more infos from Twike people in Switzerland. It really seems that there is so far only one Twike registered in Canada. The owner is probably Mr Bermingham. It is likely that he is also the owner of the Twike.ca website. There are about 20 Twikes registered in the US and I recommend you to contact mike.patterson(at)twike.us Mike would probably be able to tell you more about the legal aspects of buying and driving a Twike in the US or Canada. He might also be able to arrange a testdrive. At the moment there is no Twike Service Center in the US or Canada and that means you must have some good technical knowledge so that you can do basic maintenance yourself. A Twike service center only makes sense if there are about 30 Twikes in the region. That is about the yearly production rate of the manufacturer in Germany. So as you can see, a service center in the US or Canada is not to be built in the near future. But who knows, Twike sell well at the moment and one day maybe even the US or Canada gets its own Twike Service Center. Hope it helps...Please let me know if you have more questions about the Twike. I will try to help... ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network Community for sustainable transport
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Written on: 31. 01. 08 [11:58]
ecoadmin Administrator registered since: 20.07.2007 Posts: 367	In 2005 Stephan Meister from the Twike Club Switzerland went to the US to help Twike owners with their maintenance of the Twike. A photo story about this trip can be found here: http://ds1.dreifels.ch/twikeklub/page.asp?DH=541 Its the proof the Twike exists in the US... Stephan is probably also able to help anyone interested to buy a Twike in the US. pepi52(at)hotmail(dot)com ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network Community for sustainable transport
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Written on: 11. 02. 08 [18:13]
childress registered since: 14.08.2007 Posts: 76	A big hello from your neighbor to the South! In my experience here in the states, your best bet will be to find a vehicle that is already on the law books that is similar in legal defination to a Twike -- for the USA that is a motorcycle. In Canada do you have 3-wheeled motorcycles? They look like someone chopped the back wheel off of a luxury bike (Honda Goldwing, or Harley) and then stuck two wheels back there. One potential hangup is that sometimes the word 'saddle' is used as opposed to 'seat' -- a saddle you sit astride, like a horse, while a seat could possibly be either/or. I would start there and scrutinize the exact language of your Provincial and/or National Motor Vehicle registration laws. If existing laws on the books already cover the Twike, then don't ASK what to do from the civil servants at the Motor Vehicle Registrar's office, but instead say "I need to register my Motorcycle." In my experience, conceal your zeal and make your vehicle sound as 'normal' as possible, and work within current legislation, eliminating the need for a civil servant (government worker) to feel that it is out-of-place and requires a call to the office in the capital city or worse yet, special legislation. Stay polite and friendly, but be firm about your rights as spelled out by the law -- often times the folks that work there are aware of the most common laws that they use for 99% of the public they work with, but are unaware of the newer or less-used legislation. If they say new legislation must be passed, request an example of the type of legislation that they expect would be required... the language they're looking for, etc. I'm currently working on getting 'electric motorcycle plates,' that according to the law, I should be able to get, but because no-one has asked for them, they haven't made. Two peices of existing legislation put together (as in, if A, then B) say that I can legally request the plate, and they have to give me one. It reduces my registration/license fee from $65 a year to a maximum of $18 a year. The Twike already qualifies for reduced parking ($35 a year vs. $400) where I work, due to the fact that it's a motorcycle. It's rumored down here in the States that folks are nicer up there; hopefully that extends to your goverment workers? Commute suck? Twike it; You'll like it! http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike
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Written on: 06. 03. 08 [20:31]
Antigonish Topic creator registered since: 26.01.2008 Posts: 2	Thanks so much for all the suggestions. I did contact Mike Patterson who told me the "TWIKE is not presently available in Canada." I asked for some background; his response is attached. Childress: it may be that we are more polite, but I think it just encourages our bureaucrats to be more bureaucratic. ======================== Hi Rod, You have a good handle on the roadblocks: Economic, regulatory, and other. The first generally takes care of all the rest. We are interested in marketing, but don't have the resources to do so yet. Regards, Mike >Thanks for your quick reply Mike. Could you give me some background? >Is TWIKE interested in marketing in Canada? What are the roadblocks: >economic, regulatory, other? > >Thanks again, > >Rod
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Written on: 19. 03. 08 [11:04]
childress registered since: 14.08.2007 Posts: 76	Mike Patterson wrote: TWIKE is not presently available in Canada. Economic, regulatory, and other. The first generally takes care of all the rest. We are interested in marketing, but don't have the resources to do so yet. This is pretty typical; Mike is somewhat constrained by being the US Twike representative. As I have no official relationship with FINE Mobile or Twike USA, I am not. So let me elaborate using readily available information: The net result of all the marketing done in the US (2007 Neiman Marcus Christmas Catalong, Oct 08? 07? Issue of Car and Driver, and several others) can be seen by looking for recently registered US Twike pilots in the US on the pilot list at here. Of the last 200 registered Twikes, exactly 2 have made it to North American shores -- one in the US, one in Canada. Now that is not an Official FINE Mobile list -- it's from the Twike Klub. So it is possible that there's a slew of US-based Twikes at the end not on the list -- or I could be dreaming (it's 4am here). I'm on the US waiting list (have been for 3 years) and have yet to hear anything, so I think it's safe to say that hasn't happened... maybe this year... There are two major hurdles: Customs and FINE Mobile production levels. The latter is the more important at this point, as Twike USA successfully imported their first one in 2007 legally through US Customs. I'm not sure of the methodology, but if your vehicle is not on 'the list' of acceptable vehicles, then you have to go through an agency known as a registered importer (RI) and they go over your vehicle and verify that it meets the US NHSTA (National Highway and Safety Transportation Administration) standards -- things like brakes, lights, mirrors, etc. This is where the Twike/3-wheeled vehicles being considered a motorcycle in the US becomes a huge advantage. No bumpers, no airbags, no crash-testing. Then there are the 'other' routes through customs -- there's the research/university angle to 'get around' US Customs. I suspect that's how 433 and her brothers/sisters came into the US. Why should this be of interested to someone in Canada? From my research, the US and Canada's vehicle regulations are interlinked -- often a US regulation will state that if it meets so-and-so Canadian standard, then it's ok in the US. A lot of times in Math and Physics when a portion of a problem is seen as insurmountable, we say "Let's assume that we already have that done, and go ahead and figure out the other more manageable portions first and come back to that later" That is what I recommend you do. There's two somewhat competing issues here: FINE Mobile selling new Twikes in Canada, and YOUR Twike ownership in Canada. Twikes existed for years in the US prior to Twike USA existing, and prior to FINE Mobile (mines of SwissLEM manufacture, now bankrupt). FINE Mobile in Germany is currently the only source of NEW Twikes, but not the only source of Twikes. There are those used Twikes in the US. I would get into contact with the Canadian Twike pilot and see if he's documented everything he had to do to get his Twike legally on the road. Build that relationship. Ask if he's put it on the web so that others may use his trail. No sense in re-inventing the wheel, but the rules may be different in your province. See if you can get a ride -- if you're ever in Illinois I'd be more than happy to give you one... a word of caution they are like crack/meth -- highly addictive! Ignore the seemingly insurmountable economic/production/import problems and take care of all the other issues you can so that when the opportunity presents itself, you're ready: that's what happened with me -- I researched and had a lot of things (not all, mind you) figured things out while I was on the waiting list for a new Twike (still am, 3 years later) when Margaret contacted me and asked if I knew anyone interested in buying her used Twike... I was the first and only person she needed to contact, so there's value in forming relationships with current Twike pilots A quick word of caution though about buying any used electric vehicle -- I knew exactly what the story was behind 433's repair and battery history. As the batteries cost US$6-8,000, you need to verify in person if at all possible that the batteries are in good condition. If you accept a problem as insurmountable it will be; if you examine it and break it down into the steps and take them one at a time it becomes much more manageable, and hopefully at the end you look back and you're at the top of the mountain. Commute suck? Twike it; You'll like it! http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike
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Written on: 19. 03. 08 [22:01]
ecoadmin Administrator registered since: 20.07.2007 Posts: 367	childress wrote: There are two major hurdles: Customs and FINE Mobile production levels. The latter is the more important at this point, as Twike USA successfully imported their first one in 2007 legally through US Customs. Hi M@, Thanks for your post, very interesting reading as always. I've been in contact with FineMobile just a few days ago and one of my questions was, how long I would have to wait for my new Twike. If ordered now, they said, I could have it in June 08! So its seems they do have some free capacity. That makes me think why does it take so long to get a new one in the US? Customs are a problem but that can be overcome as explained. What remains is the manufacturer. But I can't see a reason why they do not want to sell to the US/Canada...???? How about this: Order a new Twike through a friend in Germany/Switzerland or Europe and export it yourself? This way you should be able to get your Twike quicker! Did you ever ask FineMobile why you have been on the waiting list so long? I cannot imagine that because you are not from Europe/Germany/Switzerland you are 'discriminated' and are always trailing the end of the waiting list... If you like, I am happy to help and ask related questions...maybe we get a discount if we order two Twikes in one go! Cheers Stefan ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network Community for sustainable transport
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Written on: 25. 07. 08 [04:48]
jsager registered since: 25.07.2008 Posts: 1	Hi Stefan, I'm here in Ottawa and am looking into the Twike as well. I just checked the Canada Motor Vehicle Safety Act, and it appears as though the Twike would fit the description of "motorcycle", certainly not motor tricycle, and doesn't look like power-assisted bicycle either. Check it out: http://www.tc.gc.ca/acts-regulations/GENERAL/M/mvsa/regulations/mvsrg/001/mvsr1-21.html Any news on your hunt for a Twike? Jeremy
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Written on: 25. 07. 08 [13:06]
ecoadmin Administrator registered since: 20.07.2007 Posts: 367	Hi Jeremy You have come to the right place if you want to search for TWIKE information english. Welcome to our small but growing community! I am not a Canadian resident (although sometimes I wish it would be that way) but I try to help as good as I can. As you probably know now by surfing these pages, its not so easy to get a TWIKE onto the road in Canada. But its also not impossible as history has shown. You are probably right with your assumption that a TWIKE would fall into the category of a 'motorcycle' My hunt for a TWIKE is over as I have ordered one! Now I look forward to receiving it. I dragged myself with the decision as it requires a relatively big investment at the beginning but at least the running costs will be much lower than a car and over time it should not cost more than any other small gas-powered car. Delivery is expected in early 2009. The production in Germany is running with full steam and every week a new TWIKE leaves the production line. I fear that the high number of orders is not necessarily helpful for any orders from the US or Canada. Over here TWIKES can be put on the road as any other car and with little to no legal obstacles. To satisfy the demand for European customers, orders for the 'difficult' American market get delayed. The legal framework for such a vehicle seems to pose an obstacle and it may be time consuming 'to get it all done'. I strongly suggest to contact the manufacturer in Germany to state your interest. This way they become more aware of a growing demand on the other side of the pond. They might also have updated info on the status of the North American market. You might also want to contact US TWIKE owners to get related information. Their websites are locateded at: http://twikepdx.blogspot.com/ http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike http://www.electricbike.com/ or try info(at)twike.ca (not sure if twike.ca is actively maintained, let us know if you get a response). Please let me know if you need any more info or contacts, I would be glad to help and provide assistance. Best regards, Stefan ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network Community for sustainable transport
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