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The 2010 promise
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Written on: 17. 08. 08 [16:23]
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ecoadmin
Administrator
Topic creator
registered since: 20.07.2007
Posts: 367
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From the gm-volt.com Website: All the technology for the car is here today, except for the battery pack. It will use lithium-ion (li-ion) technology. Current hybrids use nickel-metal hydride (NiMh), which carry much less energy per unit weight. The li-ion cell technology exists but putting it into tested and safe packs is what will take some time. There are companies working with GM and trying to get these Li-ion batteries and their packs ready for automotive use. That statement is somewhat confusing. If the li-ion technology is not ready for production, how is it possible to announce the car for 2010? I fear because the car industry is dragging their feet with battery technology and did not get involved much it over the last century, that it might take a bit time to make up for the failings of the past. Good luck GM! ecocarforum.com - Green Car Network
Community for sustainable transport |
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Written on: 18. 08. 08 [20:48]
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childress
 registered since: 14.08.2007
Posts: 76
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It is not confusing once you realize GM lies: Putting together a battery pack that will take you 300 miles at 85 mph is quite difficult. HOWEVER, most Americans drive less-than 50 miles per day at speeds between 0-55 mph. Most between 0 and 35. Unfortunately GM has marketed to the American public that they NEED a vehicle to travel the great American open roads for so long, that neither the general public nor GM have a firm grasp of reality anymore. The great American roads are no longer open (they're congested), the average American household size has dwindled to 2.6, and yet GM continues to make the 5 passenger car as 'the standard'. On a daily basis the majority of Americans NEED a car that doesn't cost them an arm and a leg to fuel/feed, goes between 25-50 miles per shot, can be charged up while they're at work. THAT is GM's problem -- they don't get it. Wanna go on a vacation with your friends? Rent a MiniVan. But don't own one for your 2.6 person household. If take the Twike, put in LiFePO4 batteries. Need more? Supersize your Twike: Take the Buckminster Fuller Dymaxion (a three-wheeled 5 passenger). Commute suck? Twike it; You'll like it!
http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike |
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Written on: 22. 08. 08 [15:46]
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Lensman
registered since: 31.05.2008
Posts: 77
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The plan for the GM Volt isn't anything remotely approaching a 300 mile range. It's only supposed to have a 40 mile range on battery power; beyond that it relies on a gas motor which keeps the battery pack from draining completely. It's a serial hybrid. I think this is smart of GM, since good batteries are still very expensive. Tesla's European version of its Roadster has replacement battery packs listed for the equivalent of $22,000. If the Volt had a battery pack even remotely that expensive, the car would be too expensive to sell. |
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Written on: 22. 08. 08 [18:17]
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childress
registered since: 14.08.2007
Posts: 76
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Expensive is different than claiming the tech doesn't exist. And GM knows this. This is the same car company that made the EV1 way back in the late 1990's that at the end of development went 100 miles on NiMH packs: From: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors_EV1 The Gen 1 cars got 55 to 75 miles (90 to 120 km) per charge with the Delco-manufactured lead-acid batteries, 75 to 100 miles (120-to-160 km) with the Gen 2 Panasonic lead-acid batteries, and 75 to 150 miles (120 to 240 km) per charge with Gen 2 Ovonic nickel-metal hydride batteries. Recharging took as much as eight hours for a full charge (although one could get an 80% charge in two to three hours). Lead-acid batteries are dirt cheap, and a 75-100 mile range meets most people's demands, and that's acutually a 150-200 mile work commute daily range (figuring that most folks will be able to charge up while their car sits for 8 hours while they work). If GM had NOT shut down the EV1 plant, and even if they adjusted it's price to make it profitable (they claim it cost $80,000 per car) they would be scortching off the dealer's car lots not only today but for the past 2-3 years. They had the market-leading EV. And they crushed it. And are now blaming the lack of a Volt on a lack of battery tech. Put quite simply, they are lying. I was at Hybridfest in Madison Wisconsin this year, and GM sent their new hybrids to showcase to Hybridfest members -- their new SUV hybrids. GM is anything BUT smart. Nearly 90% of the people there were Prius owners, and the rest were Insight owners. There was one owner of the Ford Escape Hybrid. They didn't even bother to tow a Volt prototype along with their Yukon hybrid. Even on a trailer it would've attracted tons of attention. What did they bring for the general public? A hybrid bus with nobody - NOBODY at the 'booth' to explain it. The first car manufacturer that announces a plug-in diesel (bio-diesel compatible) mini van in the US that can go 20-30 miles at in-town speeds on electric only will have a very hard time keeping it in stock at any price below $80,000: American's love to hate somebody for their current ills, and would seriously 'get off' on the concept of screwing the oil companies/middle east by not needing to buy gas anymore (biodiesel can be produced locally, either through recycled veggie oil or soybeans). Instead they give us Hybrid Tahoes and Yukons that get a whopping 22.7 mpg. My 1991 Toyota Camry that's in need of an oil change and a tune-up does 30mpg. Oh, and it has a towing hitch too. Commute suck? Twike it; You'll like it!
http://www.uiuc.edu/goto/twike |
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Written on: 23. 08. 08 [11:01]
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Lensman
registered since: 31.05.2008
Posts: 77
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Childress, it's good that you're passionate about saving the planet, but you overstate your case. Deep-cycle lead-acid batteries, of the type used in an EV, are far from "as cheap as dirt", and they wear out fairly quickly. "Who Killed the Electric Car" was a good documentary, and correctly pointed out there were several reasons why it didn't pay GM to make the car. But it was dead wrong about batteries. GM is in the business of making money, like it or not. Yes, there was a waiting list of a few hundred people who wanted to buy an EV1, but at $80,000 GM couldn't have sold enough of them to make the line profitable. We can't just dismiss economic issues by saying "Expensive is different from saying the tech doesn't exist." If price were no object, we could all be driving hydrogen fuel cell cars today. The reason we're not is that it costs too much to produce hydrogen, costs too much to transport it, costs *way* too much to compress it and put it into a car, and costs too much for the fuel cell. We should try to make the auto companies our friends, not our enemies. We should encourage them to develop "green" tech, cheap and efficient batteries, and practical electric cars. In the long run, demonizing auto companies is not going to benefit anyone. And the fault with so many Americans buying gas-guzzlers like SUVs and oversized pickups lies not with the auto companies-- but with ourselves. If GM, Ford and other companies sold far too many light trucks instead of compact cars, it's because that's what their customers wanted to buy. [This article was edited 1 times, at last 23.08.2008 at 11:04.] |
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Written on: 25. 08. 08 [14:17]
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Yardonn
 registered since: 22.08.2007
Posts: 13
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Lensman wrote: If price were no object, we could all be driving hydrogen fuel cell cars today. The reason we're not is that it costs too much to produce hydrogen, costs too much to transport it, costs *way* too much to compress it and put it into a car, and costs too much for the fuel cell. Lensman, but you are missing a very important point: The costs-problems are something that can be solved with new developments. But for the need of energy, there are physical (Laws of natue) boundaries. Hydrogen- technologie may be "green", but there is to much energy needed to create the hydorgen. Hydogen is just a was to store engergy, you habe to get the energy from somewhere else. And there is no (green) way, to produce enough hydrogen, to power a significant number of usual cars! It is a very significant difference, weather you are limited by economical or physical boundaries, because physical boundaries are much harder to break... Alleweder A4
http://www.leichtfahrzeuge.de allmost full weather protection for one person at 1 - 1.5 kWh / 100 km |
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